Creating a Culture to Prevent Burnout with Shauna Moran
Watch/Listen here or on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts“I believe as the leadership team goes, so goes the rest of the company. So if you don't have that consistent and significant sustainable growth, you've got some work to do.” — Mike Goldman
Shauna Moran is an award-winning leadership coach, burnout prevention specialist, keynote speaker, author, and certified breathwork facilitator. She empowers organizations to create high-performing, people-centered cultures by combining science-backed strategies with deep human insight, helping leaders and teams thrive in today’s demanding work environment.
Traits of Great Leadership Teams
Two essential traits:
Openness – to change, new ideas, and constructive disagreement.
Respect – foundational for navigating challenges and staying cohesive.
These must be modeled by the CEO and senior leadership.
Shauna’s Personal Journey
Shauna experienced burnout three times by age 28, each with different root causes.
Transitioned from corporate to entrepreneurship and quickly realized burnout was a systemic issue across teams.
Authored Managing Employee Burnout and discovered that women in leadership are the most affected demographic.
Understanding Burnout
Burnout results from chronic stress, not short-term fatigue.
There are five stages, beginning with optimism and potentially ending in disengagement or exhaustion.
Healthy stress is necessary for growth, but leaders must help their teams avoid chronic, harmful stressors.
Why Women Leaders Burn Out More
Unique pressures include:
Bias, microaggressions, unequal pay, and slower promotions
Higher emotional labor and unrecognized leadership work
Biological factors like hormone cycles, menopause, and energy fluctuations
Many women are also less likely to advocate for themselves or apply for roles unless they meet 100% of the criteria.
Supporting High Performers
High performers often mask burnout until it's severe.
Shauna encourages finding and operating from your zone of genius, where personal fulfillment meets business impact.
Leaders should re-evaluate their teams and roles to align with strengths, not just history or expectations.
Spotting Burnout in Your Team
Watch for signs like withdrawal, pessimism, reduced participation, and uncharacteristic behaviors.
Regular one-on-ones are essential for building trust and surfacing these issues early.
Lack of role clarity and unmanageable timelines are key stressors.
Addressing Burnout
Leaders should help team members clarify what energizes them and what drains them.
Reprioritize goals based on individual and team capacity, and encourage healthy boundary-setting.
Use team rhythms like quarterly breaks to decompress and sustain performance.
Leading Yourself Through Burnout
Senior leaders often lack a support system and may silently carry stress.
Build your own external network: coach, mentor, therapist, wellness practitioners.
Focus on nervous system regulation, not just time management. Sleep, breathwork, movement, and nutrition matter.
Avoid isolation—being vulnerable with the right people creates clarity and relief.
One First Step: Just Breathe
Shauna recommends starting with a few deep, intentional breaths to reconnect with the body and regulate stress.
Breathwork helped her heal PTSD after a car accident and remains one of her most reliable tools for grounding.
Even a few minutes of breathing can bring perspective and calm.
Shauna’s Offerings
Impact Amplification Program:
Designed for growth-oriented women leaders
Combines coaching, training, retreats, and community support
Delivers measurable results: reduced burnout, higher retention, increased promotions
Consulting for Organizations:
Helps fast-growth companies improve people strategy, leadership, and team performance
Frees executive teams to focus on vision and innovation
Where to Learn More www.shaunamoran.com
Thanks for listening!
Apply for a free coaching call with me
Get a Free Gift ⬇️
🆓 The limitless organization short video course
Connect with me
www.instagram.com/mikegoldmancoach/
www.facebook.com/mikegoldmancoach/
www.www.linkedin.com/in/mgoldman10/
I invite you to assess your team In all these areas by taking an online 30-question assessment for both you and your team at
-
MiIke Goldman: [00:00:00] Shauna Moran award-winning women's leadership coach, burnout prevention specialist, international keynote speaker, published author and breathwork facilitator. In a world where leadership and wellbeing, or essential, Shauna stands out by delivering science backed strategies and deeply human insight.
That go beyond surface level solutions, a sought after speaker. She empowers leaders and organizations to build resilient, high performing cultures where people and profits thrive. Shauna inspires lasting transformation through practical tools, compelling stories, and a powerful mission to advance women's leadership and prevent burnout in today's demanding.
Professional landscape. And today we're gonna talk about both those things, burnout and women's leadership. Shauna, welcome to the show.
Shauna Moran: Thanks for having me, Mike. It's great to be here.
MiIke Goldman: So my first [00:01:00] question, as always is, Shauna, from all of your experience, what do you believe is the one most important characteristic of a great leadership team?
Shauna Moran: Great question. I'm sure many people comment on that because it really gets. You're thinking, and I'm between two things. Number one, an openness. Are we open as a leadership team to trying new things to hearing alternative perspectives? Are we open to suspending our own judgments, our own ego? So that we can manage change, uncertainty, all of those things.
So I think openness is really key on a leadership team. How do we, how do we get to a place where we're continually open and we're not just stuck in the old ways of doing things or in the old thinking? And you know, oftentimes when we're introducing new thinking, resistance can come up. So what are we doing to remain open as a leadership team?
So I think that's number one. And the second thing I think is really important [00:02:00] if we want to be open is respect. You know, how do we show up with respect, for each other as we challenge the hard things and talk about the hard things? We need that undercurrent and that foundation of respect.
MiIke Goldman: Yeah. And I'm gonna allow you cheating and answering two things because they're related to each other. So, Shauna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna allow it, although you, you tried to cheat from the first question. No, but I, I love that. and what I've seen interested in your experience with this, with the openness and the respect, more than anything I have seen that needs to be modeled from the very top, from the CEO.
If the CEO is not open to new ideas, if they shut people down, if they don't, if they're not curious about other people's ideas, if they don't show respect for other people's ideas, that tends to cascade down through the rest of the team.
Shauna Moran: Absolutely it does.
MiIke Goldman: So, Shauna, why did you [00:03:00] decide we're gonna focus on burnout, andwomen's leadership and, um, I'm sure there's some tie between the two, uh, or, or maybe you'll tell me there's not, but why did you decide, in your practice, in your business, why did you decide to focus on those topics in particular?
Shauna Moran: In a way, Mike, it wasn't really a decision, it was more of a calling, as cliche as that might, may sound, my life path is often about having. Big experiences and been able to turn those experiences and, and often that pain into wisdom and to share that and to be able to, to show up for others in, in those ways.
So it started with my own story. being a, a female leader in a corporate environment over the years and working my way up, I thought that, you know, that there was really. Something wrong with me when I had burnt out three times by the age of 28. Um, uh, so I had my own [00:04:00] experiences, my own challenges with that.
Um, I burnt out. What I realized from my research is for many different reasons, every single time I burnt out, it was because of a different root cause. and when I left my corporate job, I started my own business. I was consulting primarily for agencies and tech companies. Um, I used to work with Shopify, so that's where my background is in tech and e-commerce and business strategy.
And quite quickly I realized in those advisory and consultancy services that, oh, it's not just me that experienced. That burnout actually stress and workplace stress is a common problem I'm seeing amongst all leadership teams and all organizations, and what I really found was that nobody was actually solving the problem.
It was all surface level solutions. That we're focused on the individual and leaving out that systemic lens of what do we need to do as an organization to ensure that our [00:05:00] systems, our processes, our culture and our skills support sustainable wellbeing as we grow. So my curious mind led me down the path of research and I ended up writing a book in 2021 called Managing Employee Burnout, how to, Retain and Engage.
Teams without stress. And through that research, Mike, I found out that it was women in the workplace that women in leadership positions in particular, that were the highest demographic to experience workplace burnout. And I mean, I could see that in my work as well, but to actually see the data on that, and thankfully now we actually have a lot more data on that.
Um, you know, we know that one in three women. in leadership positions consider leaving their role due to workplace stress. we know that McKinsey found in 2021, 52% of female leaders, have experienced or report feeling burnt out in their role. So, the, the women's work was, [00:06:00] um, a result of that research and I became really passionate about, I'm always passionate about.
You know, getting women into leadership positions, I've, you know, it's, it's so important, but how do we get them to actually thrive, not just survive in those leadership positions? And that's where my work comes in with women leaders.
MiIke Goldman: I definitely wanna come back to. Your thoughts on why women experience it more often, uh, that that's, you know, obviously curious about that. but before I ask you that question, I wanna rewind a little bit in talking about burnout.
You know, how do you define burnout and how do we know if we or someone is burnt out or just tired or just frustrated?
how do you define it?
Shauna Moran: Yeah, well really when we're talking about burnout, we're talking about, you know, a chronic state of stress that's going on for a long time. So we're not gonna get burnt out after a busy week, a busy month, not even after a busy quarter. [00:07:00] But if we are exposed to those chronic stressors on the job over and over and over and over again, where we're not able to regulate our system and actually manage that stress effectively, that's where we can start to fall into what's known as burnout.
There's actually five stages to burnout. So, you know, there's, you know, the optimism phase where we're feeling very optimistic and we can manage the stress. And again, if. The chronic stress or whatever's causing the stress, and it could be a couple of different things. If they don't change or improve, we start to move down into different stages of burnout, where we may feel things like more anxiety, sleep issues, more, um, less of a, an optimistic mindset.
social withdrawal can be a big thing. But the thing is, Mike, you know, everybody experiences and, and shows stress in different ways, right? For some of us it's very emotional. For some of us it's physical. For some of us it's more cognitive. We struggle to make decisions. so we're all so different, and
You know, I [00:08:00] think that the big thing is, you know, we're always, we're going to be exposed to stress. That's the world that we live in. And not all stress is bad stress. you know, we talk about healthy stress and unhealthy stress. You know, healthy stress is that big ambitious goal. Let's go. We're pumped, we're excited about it.
We reduce stress too much. We're gonna get bored. We call it bore out, right? So we have to find that optimal zone as an organization, as leaders, as a leadership team within our teams. What is that? What is that optimal zone where we have the right amount of stress, the good stress, you know, the things we actually wanna go after, not the unhealthy stress, like, you know, the, the lack of clarity, right?
Because that's a source of chronic stress if we have a lack of role clarity and responsibilities. But the good stress and the stress that keeps us at our peak. But also, you know, oftentimes we're in that optimal state. Okay, we can move into that fatigue state. So you mentioned like, what if we're tired?
Okay, we're tired, we know that it's been a busy [00:09:00] month, we've achieved a lot of things. What do we need to do to regulate so that we're not staying at that level of fatigue? So it's a mastery of, of self really, when it comes to managing stress in high performing environments. And it's really about that self-awareness.
I mean, I'm doing this work for years and I can hand on my heart, say. I'm not perfect either. You know, I am constantly checking in with myself, constantly looking at, okay, where have I been? Where have my stress levels been? Um, where am I on that zone, and what do I need to be able to manage that stress?
So it's a constant conversation with yourself first and foremost.
MiIke Goldman: Why do you believe it? It impacts.
Female leaders more than male leaders.
Shauna Moran: So there's a couple of different reasons. and I'm not saying men, you know, male leaders don't feel stressed. We know that in general, burnout is on the rise across all demographics in the workplace. But for [00:10:00] female leaders, there's unique challenges that, that female leaders face. Um, we know things like, you know, the general bias or microaggressions in the workplace, the, the challenges that women have in terms of, pay, in terms of promotions, in terms of visibility within the workplace.
We know that women are more likely to take on DEI initiatives and, uh, initiatives. For their team in terms of coaching and mentorship. So often there's, um, a, a higher mental load, for women in, in a couple of different regards. and also, you know, our workplaces were built, you know, on a nine to five, oftentimes industrial revolution, you know, style, way of working that was created back then.
And, you know, for a lot of women and the way that women are, whether it's families or home or. All of these extra responsibilities, you know, and also the way that women are biologically set up, right? You have things like our [00:11:00] biological systems, our cycles that we work off, our energy peaks and dips at different stages of the month.
We have things like perimenopause, menopause. So biologically we're different. We have different needs. and it's not to say, you know, we have to completely change our workplaces, you know, to cater to that, but we need to be aware of that. And women primarily, how can they be aware of those needs, and how can we create some male allyship around.
what it means to create equitable workplaces for women. so they're just some of the reasons. but you know, you have things like skills, and I see this a lot with the women that I work with, Mike. You know, confidence, uh, executive presence, these are all things that can be more challenging for women, right?
Like we know that there's a lot of research that shows that, you know, even if men meet, you know, 80% of the job criteria or 70% of the job criteria, they'll apply for the role, versus a woman will like. No, I'm not gonna apply until I meet a hundred percent, right? So, there's [00:12:00] often a lot, you know, there's a difference in mindset in how we approach and skills like being able to advocate for ourselves, being able to negotiate, be able to master our executive presence, to really own our, or influence in a way that's authentic.
These are the things that I'm supporting women with day in, day out, so that they can feel. Better in their leadership that they feel better to set those healthy boundaries to advocate for what they need. Um, and oftentimes I'm working with high performers. I'm always working with high performers. And high performers are actually the most likely to experience workplace burnout, yet they hide it so well, which I'm sure you've probably seen in your work, Mike, they hide it really, really well because they just keep on high performing and nobody really knows that they're.
They're going through a challenge, right, or that they need something else. So it's often the case. I'm working with women leaders and high performers as well,
MiIke Goldman: Yeah.
It's interesting you say that because one [00:13:00] of. one, one of the things I do with my clients is help them assess the performance. I work with CEOs and leadership teams and I help them assess the performance of folks. One, you know, a level down their direct reports, and I help the CEO assess the performance of folks on the leadership team.
And it's absolutely true that the. Some of the recommended actions for the highest performers are challenge them and increase their responsibility and, and raise the bar on their productivity measures because they're, you know, I, and I like your term, bore out instead of burnout. I've seen more superstars leave out of boredom.
In places than anything else. But that's a tough balancing act is when do you give your high performance more, uh, when do you give your high performers more, you know, there's a saying, you know, if you want anything done find the busiest person and, and ask them to do it. But you know, as leaders, [00:14:00] how do we manage that fine line between.
Well, yeah, our highest performers wanna be challenged, but how do we know when we're giving them too much and kind of tipping, tipping them over that healthy, that health from the healthy stress to the unhealthy stress?
Shauna Moran: yeah. And I, I love that question and it's, what are we challenging them with, first and foremost is most important. So I talk a lot about your, you know, the zone of genius and really what is it that we do that brings the highest level of satisfaction to us personally, but also the highest ROI to the business.
Uh, to the team, to the department, and that really is what that zone of genius is. And over the years, as we grow as leaders and we develop and we get promoted and we have more experience, our zone of genius may change. Right? And I often see this with the female leaders I work with, is that they got to a certain point in their leadership because they used to do it all and do it all.
Really well, they were the master executor. and that's [00:15:00] what got them to where they are. But at a certain point of leadership, it's not about doing, it's about being that visionary. It's about being that strategy. It's about being that systems operator with your team and delegating effectively and coaching people up and creating other leaders.
And there's an identity shift that comes with that too, you know, and uh, that can bring up quite a lot for leaders. But the zone of genius will change then. Well, what really is gonna bring you satisfaction at this stage? And that's the question that we need to ask. I worked with the VP recently who was in bore out and, you know, had done so much over her career.
so much amazing impact. And she said to me, oh, I just, I don't know where my excitement's gone. Super high performing, leader, and again, we worked on that zone of genius. We, we looked at, you know, what is it that really lit her up that got her to that optimal state of stress? [00:16:00] And what was it that she, that completely drained her, you know, things that maybe she was known as an expert for.
But didn't bring her any satisfaction, which is often the case for high performers. They'll keep doing those tasks because they're known for that, and they're known for getting it done, but they don't actually like it and it completely drains them, so, so we identified that, and then we identified, okay, what does your team look like now if you're showing up in your zone of genius?
80, 90, a hundred percent at the time. What does your team structure look like? So we completely revamped her team structure. And you know, in two sessions she came back to me and she said, Shauna, I feel more excited and alive in my work than I have done in years. And you know, that's really, I suppose, what high performers need.
They need opportunities to step back and to revisit who they are now, what do they really want? What lights them up? 'cause high performers are doing all the time. I know. 'cause I am one. So to have the space in a coaching, mentorship, and you know, space like [00:17:00] that to actually reflect on what do I really want at this stage is absolutely key.
MiIke Goldman: So, so if we are within someone's zone of genius, if we are within what, you know, people have natural strength at what they, what they love to do, what adds value to the organization? There, there's gonna be, if I'm hearing it right, there's less of a risk in burning someone out there. Now, of course, you can still overload someone with too much work, but there's less of a risk in burning ourselves out or others out if we're busy and in our zone of genius.
Shauna Moran: Yeah. It's the good busy, it's the meaningful work. Meaningful work is so important, you know? Are you getting outta bed in the morning excited about your day ahead? You know, in general. Okay. It's not to say every day is, you know. is perfect. There's going to be stress, there's gonna be challenge. Within that, there's gonna be friction.
But in general, [00:18:00] are you connected to your values and to your purpose? And that's really the conversations that we need to be having with our high performers. What is it that lights them up the most? And if they can't do that the majority of the time, what's the plan to get them there? Like, and really honing in for leaders and conversations with what's the work that's draining you the most?
And how do we create an ambitious goal around that? If you're still doing that right, maybe it's you need to get your team or your department to a certain level, and then we can hire another resource and then they can take that work that drains you and you can focus more on your zone of genius. Give a high performer that goal and they'll smash through it.
But you know, it's actually having those conversations and then they can see that path ahead. Then they can see this job, this company, this role. I can see my growth path ahead, you know? And that's gonna fuel them.
MiIke Goldman: What are as a leader, I, um, my brain is fighting between two perspectives. like, you [00:19:00] know, as a leader, you know, dealing with your own, you know, how do you prevent your own burnout and deal with burnout? if you are, if you're living it, or you know, or your people. And I guess what I'm gonna focus on, and maybe we could.
Find a way to cover both. but as a leader, uh, if I've got a team of seven people working for me, what are some signs that I ought to be looking for to make sure I'm not burning someone out on my team? or, you know, 'cause where I want to go is like, what are the, what are the signs to look for if someone is struggling in that way?
And then as a leader. What do I do about it? and certainly you want to prevent it before it gets there. But as a leader, what are some signs I ought to be looking for in members of my team to know if they are approaching or already in burnout?
Shauna Moran: yeah. Great question. So, at the start, I mentioned that everyone shows [00:20:00] and demonstrates unhealthy stress in a different way. So, you know, the first thing is you wanna know your team, who they are when they are. You know their normal selves when they're feeling normal and well, who are they? How do they show up?
And anything that kind of changes from that, right? So if you have someone that's quite optimistic or is very social with the team, right? They're in meetings, they share ideas, they share some suggestions, they crack a few jokes, and then all of a sudden you notice this person is actually turning their video camera off, or they're not as engaged, they're not sharing ideas, and they're saying, what'd you do for the weekend?
I slept all weekend. Right. Those are indicators that there's something going on. Now, it might not necessarily be, you know, what you think. We can't make assumptions in this, right? People's lives, you just don't know what's going on. But it does mean that it's good to have a conversation, right? And this is why the investment in trust, the investment in giving your team, um, time is really important.
[00:21:00] So one-to-ones sounds so basic. It sounds so simple, but it's so effective. If you're not having regular one-to-ones, you're not building that trust and you're not checking in on those potential red flags or amber flags and actually saying, Hey, I noticed Mike, you know, last week on our two team meetings, you didn't participate as you usually did.
What's going on? You know, so being able to have those conversations. Openly in a safe environment is really, really key. And you know, I talk about one-to-ones that's a, a root cause of unhealthy stress. Mike, you know, if there's a lack of quality support from leaders. That is going to be an unhealthy stressor.
So by having your one-to-ones, you're doing a number of things. You're building trust, but you're also giving that quality support on a regular basis, which is going to reduce the stress. And the other thing I'll add in here is lack of role clarity, which is a big one for [00:22:00] teams right now that are navigating a lot of change, a lot of uncertainty.
Things are changing all the time. And I mean, it's hard for leaders to even feel clear. Let's be honest. How do we provide clarity in ambiguous environments? And that's often done in a one-to-one as well. And so that's why that time is so important. So I think sign wise, looking at anything around disengagement, around changes in personality, in levels of optimism, in levels of social interaction, they're, that's all key to look out for.
and then what can you do about it? So, you know, aside from the things I've mentioned, number one is have the conversation, you know, have the conversation and say if you've noticed something, your intuition is so important as well as the leader. If you're feeling something like, I mean, I had a team member once and it was just a real felt sense.
She's a high performer. She was doing her work. But there was something missing in the [00:23:00] way that she communicated, in the way that she was showing up to calls, couldn't quite put my finger on it. And in her one-to-one I just said, Hey, I noticed X, Y, and Z. Like, what's going on? And it was in relation to some health challenges that she was having.
Right. You know, nothing that, that we were doing as a team, or I wasn't doing as a leader. But I'm so happy I asked that question, right? Because if I didn't, I could start making stories up assumptions, and then we just don't want that team environment. Environment, so let's connect adult to adult and actually, you know, have those conversations, I think is key.
But then thinking about what are we doing as a team, you know, across role clarity, across support, you know, across things like, Workloads and timelines, and this could nearly be a whole podcast episode in itself, but you know, when we look at things like unmanageable workloads or unrealistic timelines, our research is like, well, these are sources of chronic stress.
If we continue to face this as a team, as individuals, as leaders, we're gonna [00:24:00] experience that burnout. But, you know, we're working at very fast pace where we have those ambitious goals. So it's not about, you know, creating huge. realistic timelines with lots of space or doing bare minimum work, but it's about working smarter, not harder.
So looking at what are the things we need to let go of if we wanna achieve this big timeline and this big goal. Right? And, you know, what are the things we're gonna floor? What are the things we're gonna focus on? what are we as a team going to do to make sure that we're creating these timelines realistically together?
So, yes, they're ambitious, but we have the time for the retrospective that's needed, or you know, the wind down before we start that next project. or we are having regular conversations about Reprioritization so that we're getting the work done, we're achieving those goals, but we're somewhat grounded in.
Capacity in what? In what's actually possible. Right? [00:25:00] And I think that's that balance when we're a high performing organization that we're really, that we're really working on. It's not about not creating big goals, but it's making sure that we identify and we remove the fluff and that we get the whole team focused.
and that we are creating rhythms to the team that are needed. So for example, like every quarter. I do, and my team, we do a Friday at the end of every quarter where we just shut down for the day. Right? I get, I'll go, my team are remote, they're all over the place, but you know, I'll go do something for myself.
They'll do something for their, and we just completely switch off. As a way to just decompress, relax, reflect, and come back. So what are those rhythms as a team that support you in being high performing? Because it's not just a case about doing more and more and more and more. That doesn't work. We know that doesn't work.
It's what's our strategy so that we can do our, that we can ultimately do the [00:26:00] best and go after our goals and feel at our best while doing it, because that how we feel directly ties to what we do and how we do it. And how effective we are.
MiIke Goldman: I love you bringing up the idea of one-on-one meetings, partially because it's something I am really focused on with my clients that they do that. 'cause so many, so many leaders say, oh, I don't have time to have weekly or biweekly, one-on-one meetings. And frankly, even when they do it. They just go through a laundry, laundry list of holding the person accountable for a bunch of stuff.
It's not a real conversation. But I think, you know, in my mind, I, you know, I go back to your answer, to my first question about what the characteristic of a great leadership team, and you said openness and, and I, and having these regular one-on-one meetings and making them true conversations, not just, did you do this?
Did you do this? That seems to me to be a way to create that open relationship, to give a person a chance, [00:27:00] not just to slow down the timeline or take fluff out of the timeline of a project, but give a person a chance to say no. And I think that's what a lot of high performing folks don't do or don't know how to do or are afraid to do, is to say, I know you want me to do these five things. I can get three of them done, which are the most important because I need to say no to two of them. So help me decide what the most important ones as opposed to, okay, I'll get all five done. And then they go home and they're thinking, how the heck am I gonna get that stuff done?
Shauna Moran: yeah. And then they'll do it and you'll think, oh, that person's great.
MiIke Goldman: Yeah. Aren't they amazing? Yeah.
Shauna Moran: that's the, you know, I often call that the leadership constriction trap. You know, as high performers, we often fall into that because as we evolve and we get promoted, we take on more responsibility, and we keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes.
And then we become [00:28:00] constricted. It's this trap right where we, we've just taken on all this responsibility and all this stress, so, you know, I love that you know what you've said. If for me to say yes to this, I need to say no to. Whatever that is. And those alignment check-ins like that, clarity is key. You know, and I'll often, I'll often, um, work, you know, especially with female leaders when I work with them, you know, they'll say, Shauna, things are unmanageable for me right now.
Like, I have so many things going on. There's too many priorities. I can't keep up. I should be able to keep up. And they'll tell themselves that story, you know, and worry about it. I said, let's get everything onto paper, let's get some data behind it, some metrics behind what you're doing. Let's look at what needs to be prioritized and what your capacity actually is.
And oftentimes when we do that mapping, you'll find things like, you know, there's an extra 30 hours of work that week that's needed, where's that gonna come from an already 50 hour work week? but what we have there is we have data, and when we have data, we can build a [00:29:00] case and we can effectively advocate for ourselves.
So we can say things like. Look, this is the reality of the situation. Hey, leader or CEO or whatever. here's the reality of the situation. What do I need to prioritize? and as a result, I'll need to deprioritize this. What's our plan of action to be able to either be okay with this and floor it for now or to reshuffle it somewhere else?
Um, and what's our plan long term to make sure that all of this work can get done if it's all important, so we can start to have really open. Fruitful resource decisions as opposed to those high performers stuck in that leadership constriction trap, feeling like they're having to figure it all out themselves.
MiIke Goldman: So, so shifting from if I'm a leader, what do I need to do with and for, you know, my team to, to handle this? let's say I am a senior leader, and I'll go even further. Let's say I'm the CEO. [00:30:00] So it all comes down to me and I am feeling anxiety and I'm not sleeping, and all of a sudden I'm just, my optimism is gone and I don't think things are gonna work out, and there's no way out.
And it all comes down to me. What am I gonna do? you know, so if I'm a leader and I'm feeling that way, and obviously if I'm feeling that way, even if I try to hide it, that's gonna start. Infecting my team and I don't know if I like that word, but I'll use it. It's gonna start infecting my team if I'm a leader and you know, I can't go up to who I'm reporting to because it's me. what do I do as a leader to get to, to try to work myself out of that burnout situation?
Shauna Moran: Yeah. I love that you've asked this question because that is the reality for a lot of senior leaders, right? And you know, they [00:31:00] often don't have the spaces to say that out loud to anyone, you know? So I think it's important they can hear this conversation.
And if that resonates, I would say the first thing to do is to build a support system.
And I'm on, not on about your senior leadership team or your executive team. I'm on about a support system for you, whether that is a coach, a mentor, a business advisor, a therapist, you know, it could be a breath work facilitator. Right, but like whatever that is, what is your support system, those trusted advisors that can support you from a mental, physical, and emotional level and perspective, right?
So thinking about all of those lenses, who are those experts that you can bring in and pay oftentimes to have as your support system? So I always say strong leaders need strong support systems. So what does that look like right now and where are some of those [00:32:00] gaps? and I think that's really key from that foundation.
You know, you're not gonna be able to think your way into clarity if you're, if you're that dysregulated, you know? it can be hard to see things clearly. It can be hard to make decisions when you're in those states of chronic stress. So it really is about how do I learn how to regulate my system? And we can't really think our way into regulation.
Right. Like we, we have to kind of practice our way into that. You know, we, whether it's through breath work or physical activity or been able to decompress, coming out with that fight or flight mode, right? So that's where the nervous system work really comes in. And what is it that can anchor us. going back to basics, sleep, nutrition, water intake.
What are your coping mechanisms? Are they healthy? Or are you reaching for a beer at the end of the day? Right? No judgment, but like how can you find those healthier coping [00:33:00] mechanisms from that place? Then you can start to think about, okay, now I feel regulated in myself. I feel a bit better. I know things have to change.
I haven't solved everything, but I'm clearer. And I'm more grounded and centered, and from there I can start to have conversations with my coach, my mentor, my business advisors, whatever that is, to start to understand what's my zone of genius and what do I need to hand off or create around me so that I can spend my time there.
In a realistic way, and build out that strategy. And, you know, hopefully there's some immediate wins and immediate things you can hand over. and then there's probably gonna be a plan of action there of, okay, you know, I'm focused primarily on X and Y and Z needs to be delegated. Right? And, and we don't have that person in place, so that becomes your priority.
but I think the most important thing is to not isolate yourself in that reach out. Yeah, reach out to someone. you're not alone in it, you [00:34:00] know, and it's often the weight, it feels heavier when we carry it alone. And it's probably not something you feel maybe comfortable sharing with your executive team or your senior leaders.
'cause you want, you know, you want to be something for them and, and, you know, that level of vulnerability can feel quite raw still. I know those feelings, you know, so who can you place around you? That you trust that you can lean on and that can support you in remembering who you really are.
MiIke Goldman: So for the individual listening leader, non-leader, this point doesn't matter. Whoever, if there's someone listening that is in the midst of it, they are feeling burn and you know, I don't know, where burnout ends and depression begins, or if they kind of overlap. But you know, some of us have been there where it's this.
It could wind up with this feeling of overwhelm where something as little as, oh my God, I have to do the laundry now on top of everything else I've got, or I've gotta go empty the dish. Like the littlest things could [00:35:00] feel so overwhelming if people are, are, you know, at that stage they're burnt out, they're overwhelmed.
You, Shauna, you brought up a whole bunch of great strategies there. but what's one thing, you know for someone listening now that's feeling that way and they are overwhelmed? So going out and taking, you know, 12 different steps to fix it is something that sounds crazy to them. They're not gonna go do it.
what's the first thing? what's something they can do when they're done listening to this? So they could stop right now and put us on pause and do it. what's one thing someone could do to just take a first step?
Shauna Moran: Breathe. Do it right now. Right, like, feel your body wherever you are, whether you're sitting, whether you're standing, whether you're walking. Feel your body, feel your feet on the floor. Exhale and breathe. Breathe in through the nose, really in, in, you know, elongate that inhale. Hold at the top and really [00:36:00] let that exhale.
Go with the sigh and just breathe the breath. And this is why. I'm a breathwork facilitator because the breadth is, I believe, one of our fastest ways to a state of regulation. And you know, the breadth has supported me so much down through the years. I found it because I came out of a really bad car accident and I had really bad PTSD and I couldn't get out of that fear that I was in, from that accident.
Accident. And it was the breath, learning how to breathe deeply, how to regulate using your breath, that actually really shifted everything for me, and it still does to this day, right? Like it's always there. It's our own medicine that. We can access at any time. We can do it in a meeting, Mike. We can do it right now while we're listening to this podcast.
We can do it when we're driving. what would it take for you to take 4, 5, 6 deep breaths? [00:37:00] You know, and notice then how you feel. And, you know, those are in those micro moments, but to build that relationship with your breath is. Is so powerful. You know, there's, there's lots of different methodologies and tools like conscious connected breath work, Wim Hof Method.
There's so many things out there, but they're all saying the same thing. You know, the breath is a powerful way for you to come back to your center. So that's the first thing I would recommend is. To really connect with the breath, because oftentimes it can feel, you know, when we're at that level of stress, it can be, it can feel difficult to do things like a meditation because the mind is just go, go, go, go.
You know, I've been there myself, and that's why the breath is an act of participation. So for, you know, there's a movement to it. So, sit on the ground, lie on the ground, connect to your breath, put on some music, and just allow yourself to be for a moment. You know, and, and sometimes that can bring uncomfortable feelings up as well.
It's not all easy, right? Like oftentimes [00:38:00] it's like, oh, it's, it feels, it feels hard to pause. It feels unsafe to slow down. So there's often reminders that we might need, you know, as we start to kind of slow ourselves down. And, and the big thing is, I always say, collect your own data. You know, like I collected my own data.
At, uh, before I went for my, my quarterly break last week where I took that day offline and I was feeling okay, like I was feeling pretty good, but I, you know, measured myself on my mental clarity, my physical energy, my emotional state, and my spiritual connection and, you know, they were scoring okay. Uh, before the, the day off.
And then after when I came home, I re-did it and it was all a hun. Like it was all 90, a hundred percent. It was a massive shift. So collect your own data is what I'll say. Don't just listen to me as someone, you know, sharing. You should do this and you should do that. Everyone is different. [00:39:00] Learn more about yourself.
Collect your own data as to what actually works for you. and that's really where that master fullness comes in and been able to manage stress.
MiIke Goldman: Shauna, who as we, we start to kind of wrap up the conversation, tell me a little bit about who your. Clients, are you working with leaders to create cultures to prevent or deal with some of this? Are you working with individuals who are feeling some of this? who are your clients and and what kinds of work do you do with them?
Shauna Moran: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So there's, there's two kind of main, programs that I offer. So the first one is for growth orientated women in leadership positions, and that program that I have is called the Impact Amplification Program. So that's for women that. You know, want to grow, want to get to the next stage of their leadership, but know that things have to change in order for them to get there.
Maybe it's their confidence, maybe it's their skills, maybe it's their executive presence. They [00:40:00] want to, you know, become the best version of themselves as leaders and really take their team and their organization to the next level. And that program is, you know, a combination of all the things I needed, Mike, when I was.
You know, working my way up, as a leader. So there's, you know, I'm an executive coach. There's mentoring, there's group and community, there's, you know, self-serve trainings and leadership development tools and frameworks. Um, we do things like our annual in-person retreat where we bring female leaders together in person, in the program.
And we do meditations and breath work and saunas and, you know, we plan our vision for the year. And it's just a really, Not just nourishing, but thriving en environment and community. And I'm, I'm really grateful for that. And, and we're constantly building it. You know, we, we see things like, uh, 95% retention rate for female leaders that are in the program, so they'll stay with their companies.
We see on average a 40% reduction in burnout within female [00:41:00] leaders in 90 days of joining the program. And we see an 85% promotion. rate for female leaders within 18 months of joining the the program. So even if there's any CEOs out there that are listening to this that have high performing female leaders.
Invest in them, sponsor them to be in a container like this and you know, the results will pay off tenfold. So that's one piece of the work I do. And the other piece of work I do, Mike then is working with, um, growth stage, medium sized, small to medium sized businesses. And that really is more on that strategic consulting, really supporting them and been able to achieve that next level of growth with their people strategy and their leadership strategy locked in.
and again, bringing in. All the work I've done over the years, the coaching, the advising, the mentorship, the systemic team coaching, all of those things are in there. But ultimately, you know, it's working with, with those companies to get to the next stage and often unburden that executive team, so that they can focus on their own genius.[00:42:00]
MiIke Goldman: Beautiful.
And if someone wants to find out more about you and all those services, where, where's the best place for them to go?
Shauna Moran: You can head to my website, www.shaunamoran.com and uh, you can email our team it's info@shaunamoran.com.
MiIke Goldman: And by the way, mourn is M-O-R-A-N.
Shauna Moran: Yes, correct.
MiIke Goldman: had to make sure I pronounced it right, be before we started, but I want to make sure people know how to spell it.
Shauna Moran: yeah. No, I appreciate that, that, uh, my Irish accent always, uh, gives me a hard time with the letter as I pronounce it or, but, uh, you know, you guys pronounce it r so,
MiIke Goldman: And I'm sure we do it wrong, but that's okay. Well, Shauna, this, this was fantastic. Thanks so much. Uh, super helpful to leaders out there. Who wanna make sure they are building the right culture for their teams, or they're dealing and, or they're dealing with some, some of these, [00:43:00] uh, stresses themselves. I always say if you want a great company, you need a great leadership team.
Shauna, thanks for helping us get there today.
Shauna Moran: Yeah. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for holding space for these amazing conversations and for asking such great questions. Really appreciate the meaningful conversation.
MiIke Goldman: great having you on.