From Excuses to Execution: Overcoming the ‘Yeah, But’ Mindset with Marc A. Wolfe
Watch/Listen here or on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts“I believe as the leadership team goes, so goes the rest of the company. So if you don't have that consistent and significant sustainable growth, you've got some work to do.” — Mike Goldman
Marc A. Wolfe, executive coach and author of Yeah, But: Cut Through the Noise to Live, Learn and Lead Better, explores the hidden power—and danger—of the words “yeah, but.” He shares how leaders can recognize when hesitation turns into self-sabotage, transform excuses into meaningful action, and create teams that replace resistance with curiosity, clarity, and collaboration.
The Power Behind “Yeah, But”
Marc explains that “yeah, but” is one of the most common and destructive phrases in leadership and life.
It represents self-imposed limitations and excuses that hold people and teams back.
The phrase often surfaces when leaders or team members rationalize inaction—“Yeah, but we’re too busy,” or “Yeah, but it’s not the right time.”
Marc shares how his own 15-year struggle to write his book stemmed from a personal “yeah, but.”
From Photography to Coaching Fortune 500 Leaders
Marc’s journey began in New Jersey, starting a photography business at 16 because he didn’t want to work for anyone else.
His curiosity and willingness to ask questions opened doors to photographing U.S. presidents and NFL teams, then selling early Apple computers.
Over time, those conversations with leaders evolved into a career in executive coaching, focused on communication and mindset.
The Four Categories of “Yeah, Buts”
Marc outlines his book’s framework:
Time-based: “Yeah, but I don’t have time.”
Demographic-based: “Yeah, but not where I’m from.”
Path-based: “Yeah, but I don’t know the plan.”
Readiness-based: “Yeah, but I’m not ready.”
He emphasizes prioritization—everyone has 1,440 minutes each day, but not everyone chooses to use them meaningfully.
The Perfectionist Trap: Waiting Until It’s “Calm”
Many leaders delay decisions under the illusion that they’ll act when things calm down—but that moment never comes.
Marc stresses a bias toward action over analysis paralysis.
He challenges teams to recognize that inaction is still an action—it’s a choice to stay still.
Constructive vs. Destructive Pushback
Mike shares client examples where team members’ pushback sounded negative but was actually healthy.
Marc distinguishes between unproductive “yeah, buts” (“Here’s why we can’t”) and constructive challenges (“What would make this work better?”).
Healthy teams ask questions that seek clarity, not control.
Building a Culture of Clarity and Respect
Marc highlights that strong teams combine communication and collaboration.
Asking clarifying questions prevents misalignment and resentment later.
Words matter—phrases like “sure” can create ambiguity, while direct language fosters trust and accountability.
Shifting the Team Mindset
When a CEO faces a team full of naysayers, Marc recommends reframing the conversation:
Ask: “What is possible with what we have?”
Encourage ownership: “If you had my job for a day, how far could you get?”
Leaders must invite pushback without taking it personally; it’s a sign of engagement, not defiance.
Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, and Vulnerability
Marc emphasizes emotional discipline—leaders must resist reacting defensively to disagreement.
A team that never challenges the leader isn’t collaborating—it’s complying.
He advocates for transparency: if team members “don’t understand the whole picture,” the leader may not be sharing enough information.
The Role of Vision and Ownership
A powerful vision reduces resistance. When team members help create the vision, they’re more invested in achieving it.
Marc encourages leaders to ask, “What do you wish we could do?”—a simple yet transformative question that surfaces hidden ideas and aspirations.
From Work-Life Balance to Life Agility
Marc reframes “work-life balance” as “life agility.”
True leadership success includes alignment between work, home, and personal well-being.
Burnout arises when joy is lost in both domains—professional and personal.
How Marc Works with Clients
Marc works across industries, focusing on mindset and communication rather than industry expertise.
His process combines executive coaching, consulting, and strategy to help leaders and teams bridge performance gaps.
He focuses on helping clients act on what they say they want, not just talk about it.
Thanks for listening!
Apply for a free coaching call with me
Get a Free Gift ⬇️
🆓 The limitless organization short video course
Connect with me
www.instagram.com/mikegoldmancoach/
www.facebook.com/mikegoldmancoach/
www.www.linkedin.com/in/mgoldman10/
I invite you to assess your team In all these areas by taking an online 30-question assessment for both you and your team at
-
Mike: [00:00:00]
How does someone go from photographing US presidents and NFL teams to selling early Apple computers to coaching Fortune 500 leaders? Marc A. Wolfe had that exact journey.
His diverse career gives him a unique insight into the one thing that holds everyone back. The, "Yeah. But" in his book, yeah, but cut through the noise to live, learn, and lead better. He explains how to dismantle the excuses that kill progress and turn your team's potential into performance. Marc, welcome to the show.
Marc A Wolfe: Great to be here, Mike. Ready to go and get some, "Yeah. But" kicked.
Mike: Yeah I like that. I, love this whole topic, I'm, really excited to dig into it. Uh first question, as always is Marc from all of your you know, varied experience, I guess from, your background, what do you believe is the one most important characteristic of a great leadership team?[00:01:00]
Marc A Wolfe: A great leadership team needs to have communication and collaboration when a leader gives an answer or direction. It's the team that needs to make sure they get the clarity on exactly what they're being asked to do. One of the biggest mistakes I see is someone cast a vision and people don't ask good questions, don't collaborate, don't push back, and they just fail because of the lack of it.
We can call them. "Yeah, Buts" other people just call it, I didn't want to ask, or I was ashamed to ask, or I didn't know what to ask.
Mike: I think that's a good. Lead something I, don't wanna dive into yet, but when we start talking about those Yeah, Buts, is pushback a Yeah. But you know, that's a great plan. But, so let's not get into that yet. talk about the concept first.
Marc A Wolfe: But when we talk about the impact on the team, we are absolutely gonna come back around to that.
Mike: But before we get into the Yeah. [00:02:00] Buts.
Tell me a little bit about your story. How does someone go from photographing US presidents to NFL teams, to selling early Apple computers, to coaching Fortune 500 leaders? how does that happen?
Marc A Wolfe: The short story is, I didn't wanna work for somebody else, so I wanted to start my own company. I grew up in New Jersey and, when we had some, yeah, exactly. I grew up in Bergen County in New Jersey, and, You know, we had some hard times. my parents got divorced and we were on welfare and food stamps, and I decided at that moment that I didn't wanna be poor and I wasn't gonna work for somebody else that could control what I did.
So I started a photography business as a freelance photographer at 16 years old. I remember putting in my papers to go and start self incorporated company, my little sole proprietorship. And what I did, Mike, is I was looking at what can I do with what I have? That's when I had some opportunities 'cause I'm a chatty guy.
You know, some Jersey peoples know how to talk to people. [00:03:00] And we had conversations and people were like, oh, you're a photographer. Next thing you know, I'm getting invited to do things. I'm able to take pictures of presidents. When I was at university, at Fairleigh Dickinson in New Jersey, I was doing lots of different things.
Had an internship in New York. Giants did things because I was not afraid to ask. And that journey, the short answer is photography led me to Macintosh computers, the early nineties, which led me to talking to more leaders and having conversations. Which led me to become an executive coach because I realized leadership was more about listening than it is about just telling,
Mike: Marc.
you've built a whole book around two little words. Yeah But
why do you think those words are so powerful?
Marc A Wolfe: because I used to hear 'em and say them. I mean, that was one of the biggest things that I heard early on was. When I asked people and Mike, I do things a little different. You know how people at a networking event, it'll meet somebody? They'll ask 'em what they do. [00:04:00] What I used to say is, what do you wish you would be doing?
And they said, what do I do? And I said, no, you already know what you do. What I wanna know is what you'd rather be doing. And you know what they say? They never said, you know, I love my job so much. I love what I'm doing. That's the only thing I wanna talk about. They would always talk about aspirationally what they wanted to do, and then they always said in there.
Yeah But I can't make money or Yeah, But I'm too old to do it or, yeah. But, and I was like, I keep hearing more Yeah. Buts about what they wish they could do than what they were doing.
Mike: So it holds people back. is the bottom line.
Marc A Wolfe: I think about myself and I think about the 15 years it took me to write this book, because I was, yeah, but don't people misinterpret texts and emails and why would you have 40,000 words that people can misinterpret? It's a lot easier to speak to people in real life than it is to write. it was a, yeah, but, so we all have them, but I was like, there's gotta be a way to get around them.
So let's just try to write a book about the 15 biggest Yeah Buts ever.
Mike: So drilling [00:05:00] into the biggest Yeah. Buts.
I know in your book, you categorize them into, I think it's four different types of Yeah, Buts. tell us what those types are, and then we'll drill into a few to really understand what they are and how they impact us.
Marc A Wolfe: Yeah, so I made this book so people could read it who don't wanna feel like they have homework, right? It's 202, pages. People are like, I don't read. I was like, okay, well pick a category. Is it a time-based issue? yeah, but I don't have time. Or is it the demographic? yeah, but not where I'm from.
Or is it a path based yeah, but I don't know the plan. So I have five different sections with three chapters in it where you could read those or you could just read the chapters that matter to you, because I don't want people to have a Yeah, but to not read a book that helps you overcome.
Yeah, buts.
Mike: So the first category, and you stop me when I go wrong here, but the first category is time-based Yeah Buts. and one of them in there is this. Yeah. But that's, you know. Yeah. but I'm not ready. [00:06:00] And I wanna drill into that one a little bit because I think I hear. In my clients in, well forget about whether they're clients.
I hear in CEOs very often, I think a version of the, I'm not ready, which is, yeah, I know I need, I know I need to do that, but things are so busy right now. I need to wait until things calm down. And of my response is, do things ever calm down in business? Like when's that magic point? But I think if I'm right, that's kind of a version of
Marc A Wolfe: I'm not ready.
Mike: But let's drill into that. what are the situations that, where that comes up and are there ways to shift our perspective on it that are more, more helpful and productive?
Marc A Wolfe: So yes. That, that ties into Yeah, but I'm not ready and yeah, but I don't have time and Yeah. But what's the plan, right? So there's multiple, yeah. Buts usually people have. So for that specific one, I would have to wait till things calm down.
[00:07:00] We talk about in the book about prioritization that everybody has the same 1,440 minutes every day.
So imagine if everybody had the same amount of money in the same amount of time, we'd accomplish the same exact things. No, that's not the way it works. It works on prioritization. It works on what you think is important. It works on measuring and I use non-business examples to say, yeah, but I'm not ready and I have to wait for things to calm down.
I say at the end of a long day, Mike, some people just want to go and want to sit in front of TV, or they wanna watch sports, or they want to do something that's not work. And then I say to them, when you're done spending two hours watching Netflix, or your favorite team does it, do you ever measure, did it satisfy?
Did it really make you feel better? Did it? And most people are like, well, no I don't. I just do it. I was like, okay, so you're doing something and not measuring something, but there's other things you could be doing. That could be changing your business or changing your life or making you more involved with your family, but you're not choosing them because you're [00:08:00] busy.
So I just wanna show people a folly of what we do, which is we think we're doing the right thing, we think we're busy. But when you pull things away, when you actually use what I call bumpt best use of my prioritized time, you won't be going to some meetings you don't belong in. You won't be doing things you don't really need to be doing, and you'll reprioritize.
Mike: Yeah, it's kind of like what I used to, I used to do time management seminars the day. Don't do them anymore, but one of my mantras was of course there's not time enough in the day to do everything there. There's not, but there is time to do the most important things,
Marc A Wolfe: always do a great job of identifying what those most important things are. the other version of the. I am not ready. Or maybe this is, you know, what's the plan? Which is another. Yeah But, another version of that I just ran into last week, but I run into a [00:09:00] lotas someone who coaches leadership teams is the individual on the team or sometimes a group of individuals on a team that just believe they need to keep analyzing. You know, we're a decision on that yet. You know, we need to plan more, and. I think part of the fallacy there, and then I want to get your thoughts on this of course, is I think people believe when it comes to being ready, when it comes to having a plan, that there is some magic one right answer or magic one right way things.
Mike: Where my, I have a little bit more of a bias towards action, maybe a lot more of a bias towards action and my kind of philosophy is. There. There, there's typically not one right answer, just make a decision, execute and adjust along the way. [00:10:00] But I want your thoughts on that because I do a combination of the,
I'm not ready and we need to do more planning.
Marc A Wolfe: It. So I see that a lot. And when I work with leaders, the perfectionist, right, or the analytics that they want to be able to have. All the data, it's important to have. First of all, it's important to have people on your team that are different than you and Mike. I lean the same way you do. I'm like, if you're gonna talk about it and we recognize there's a problem, we have to analyze what we know and let's move on.
A potential solution to go and adjust along the way. Right? But there are people that, and God loved them, that they are gonna go and be like, do we have the money for that? Is this the right timing to do that? They ask really good questions. The thing is that inaction is an action. It's just an action to stay where you are or actually fall behind.
And I want people to recognize, like when you say there's perfectionists out there, I use a method where I ask people in teams, I say, listen, if you want all this information, what do you think? Gimme your initial gut reaction. [00:11:00] Gimme what your initial thoughts are because they have exposure and experience already.
And I said, let's come back to that after you do all your analytics and everything else. How close was it to your original thought of what we should do and almost 99 outta a 100 times, they're like, well, that's originally what I thought we needed to do. I just wanted more data to back it up. I was like, okay, so you're actually better at understanding it even without the data because you have experience and knowledge.
They just want it to be able to make sure, and there's a lot more there. I'm not a psychologist. I don't do counseling, but sometimes there's people in people's history where they are afraid to fail. And they don't want to touch because they're like, if I don't get all the information and I fail, I'm a failure.
So there's a lot of other things that hold people back and understanding data, et cetera. I think the team needs a dialogue. What are we at least gonna do from a start point? What's the first milestone? What are we gonna try? And it's not, it's a non-fatal error.
Mike: How do we draw the [00:12:00] line between
actually, let me a different way is Yeah, but always the wrong way to think, or are there times where the Yeah, but is an important step.
Marc A Wolfe: That's a great question and I love that, and I talk about this in my book, overcoming all Your Yeah, Buts is not the goal. What I wanna make sure is that if it is your, yeah, but. Is it still holding you back from doing what you're supposed to do? And in there's a story where it's someone else's. Yeah But so there's a lawyer that's in there and he did some international law and the firm wasn't really strong in international law, but he had all these relationships and built this. And he's we need to expand our practice because in Nashville there's a lot of international companies coming here.
We can go and build out this. And they were like, no. Yeah, but that's not what we do. And he left and went somewhere [00:13:00] else where they did appreciate that. And he wasn't 25, 30 years old, he was later in his careers. It was a risk. So sometimes somebody else says, yeah, buts are theirs, and that's good because it should be theirs.
But when they put 'em on you and it stops you from doing something, that's not always a great Yeah But. It's good to have Yeah. Buts when people ask questions, but you just gotta understand, is this a big enough issue to not do something? yeah, but should I even get married or should I have kids?
Kids are expensive. You have them for the rest of your life. That's a big deal. Those are still true. Yeah. Buts. But it didn't keep me from getting married and being a girl dead and having two kids.
Mike: So again, I'm thinking of a very specific client situation where you've got a leader with some very strong opinions. This, was just two weeks ago in my practice, leader with some very strong [00:14:00] opinions a pretty clear vision of where he wants the company to go. A whole bunch of folks on the leadership team that nod their heads don't do a lot of pushing back. One member of the team. That does push back and he can come across as pretty negative, but I actually thank him, thanked him two weeks ago for his pushback because no one else was, and he was saying things like that, like a great plan, but we have never, we've tried that before and it's never worked. What are we gonna do differently this time? So that was, you know, I certainly a form of a, Yeah But, my thought was, I wish more people on the team did that. So again,
Marc A Wolfe: how do you differentiate between, [00:15:00] when is that? When is that type of Yeah, but hurting the team and when is actually helping the team do a better job of thinking through a decision.
Wow. This is you. This is a one. I want to stay on for a moment because I love this part, right? It's what you're telling me is the culture of this organization is the leader says what to do and people. Don't say anything to pushback. Right. And again, I don't know the organization You do, but I've seen this as well.
Leader makes a decision. They're very powerful. They're, they've been there a while, or when they say things, people are like, we're just gonna let this happen now. Even if it fails, they're just gonna be like, but you see what that thought was, what that other, the pushback was not, yeah, but we've done it before.
What are we gonna do different? What's gonna be different this time? That's a better question because that allows you to go, if we do it the same way, we may get the same results, which isn't always true, but it provokes a little thought to go and say, well, what are we gonna do different? Or I would phrase it another way.
How do we know that what we're doing [00:16:00] is gonna produce different results? Right? So now it's not a pushback, it's more of better questions. Teams that ask really good questions aren't seeing the boss's ideas. Horrible. What they're trying to get is more clarity. They're trying to get to a different answer or to understand the answer in a way where the rest of the team, the people who are the introverts, the ones who are afraid to stand up, you can be an advocate for them.
Because I've seen many meetings where other people are like, I'm so glad you asked that. It doesn't have to be everybody on the team that asks great questions, and it shouldn't be one person only that asks great questions. Their needs. A real true team has people that say things for the people who are under seen or underserved and just Hey, what about this other thing?
Also knowing is this thing a big enough thing to address today in this meeting? Is this even the right meeting? Timing is important, Mike. You know that there's so many nuances here and we can have a [00:17:00] whole conversation about a lot of this, but I think what you're originally saying is yes. Asking the right question at the right time, but making sure that you still respect a leader.
You have to have the right to ask it. And if you're, this is your first week on the job and asking questions, it's a little different if that wasn't your role. So there's a lot here as you know.
Mike: There is, I it sounds to me like the way you're saying to draw the line and tell me if I'm on the right track here, is if someone is. Pushing back on an idea, whether you should move forward, how you should move forward in that. Yes. You may look at as a version of Yeah But that if the pushback is, you know, yeah.
But, and that Yeah. But kind of to just stop us from moving forward on something that's gonna have a positive impact, make us better, impact our clients, our
Marc A Wolfe: it is. if yeah. But to say. stop us.
Mike: That's one thing. If it's a, yeah, [00:18:00] but that helps us drive more clarity.
Marc A Wolfe: ensure we're making the right decision, not just a Yeah, but to paralyze us. That's a pretty important distinction.
and so the difference between a Yeah. But. And a yes. And as people say, or what's possible is a Yeah, but says yes, and it gives you a reason why you can't. So there they're opposing forces. A great question and I don't think using a Yeah, but as a, you know, as a positive, it's usually a negative, right?
It would be could you tell me more about how that looks? What would it be like that would make this even more successful? What other questions do you even have as a leader? I would ask the leader to say where you think there might be things that we still need to explore, right? be the person in the room that says, I want to make sure we think of things, but we don't have to think everything, but are we thinking about the most important things?
And if we are thinking about the [00:19:00] important things. When is a time to think about these other things we aren't thinking about yet? I know it sounds like a cat in a hat book, but what I'm saying is there's always a time to have a conversation and there's milestones to be able to think of things. What I try to prepare my clients for is the things that we should know and the things that we should be aware of if they blindside us, shame on us.
I don't think everything should be called unprecedented. We know we're gonna go through down cycles. We know there's gonna be up rests in certain areas. Are we at least addressing that or is that not even an area to address yet?
Mike: Yeah, what I just wrote down, if you're watching this, you see me writing notes sometimes. 'cause the biggest reason I do this podcast is so I get some free trading and coaching.
So I love this stuff, but what I just wrote down is I think there's a really powerful distinction Marc you're making, which is you know, the Yeah But we're talking about, which is a bad thing, is kind of a, you know, here's why we can't. [00:20:00] Well, here's why I can't, we can't do that because whereas a more positive version of it which won't call a Yeah, but, 'cause you're right, that's normally negative. But a more positive version of the pushback on a decision or an idea is not why we can't, but it's how can we. And it might be,
Marc A Wolfe: can we change the way we do? How can we even add onto this to make it better? It's how can we versus the focus on why we can't do something.
Words are important, Mike. Yeah, I mean, when you and I grew up, you know, even in Jersey, and I know we didn't grow up together, but we, same kind of generation, you know, it's. It's the people that were negative, the people that, you know, get off my lawn, the mean people, the always the negative people, right?
Like you didn't want to hang around those people because there was always a reason not to do something. And nowadays, when you say, I, it's funny,I work with my clients and I'll ask them a question. They're like, sure. And I was like. Is that a yes or a no? [00:21:00] Now, it sounds like a snarky response, but the thing is that sure can be interpreted as well.
Yeah. Okay. I was like, you want a heck yes or heck no. So I'm trying to get people to understand that words are so important that when you say, sure it can be misinterpreted. Use your words in a way where you mean what you say, and you say what you mean. And when there's lack of clarity on any of the words that are used.
Let me ask you a question, and it may seem like a silly question. What do you mean when you say, let's get, just get this done? Is there a deadline to it? Is there something that we know is the first milestone? And that produces a lot better results because there's lack of ambiguity. Because unmet expectations in business are, and personal and professional life are where most things make people really angry.
I thought you meant this well. Did you ever ask? No, I did not. Now, here we are.
Mike: What's something for the individual this, who [00:22:00] may be realizing now that they, yeah, but a lot that their focus very often is on why they or the team or the company can't do something. what's one thing. Tomorrow or today, they could start doing differently now. I think you already gave us one, this heck yes or heck no.
I think that's a way to think about things. What's one other step? What's something you find works when you are working with a client that's having this challenge? What's something they could start doing or maybe a way they can start thinking that starts to change this a little bit?
Marc A Wolfe: I think you have to be around other people that don't think exactly like you. just at an event and I have lots of different events where I bring people together that aren't. Authors and aren't executive coaches and aren't doing what I do because I want to be around other people and they see the world differently and they ask different questions.
So I think if you stay in a silo, and [00:23:00] especially if you're in sales or you're a leader, you hang around certain people that do what you do and you think similarly, it's good to be around somebody. Like my wife is very creative, so she doesn't see the world that way. I do. She'll see things. On walls or pictures, and it sounds simple, but when you hang around somebody else, they're gonna see the world and they're gonna ask different questions and you're gonna hear that question and be like, well, that doesn't really matter to me, but oh, that matters to that person.
That person may be on my team. Well, should I make sure I'm aware of what other people, what matters to other people? So I think one of the easy things to do. Is to go and start listening to questions and why people ask them to understand why they ask them. I mean, there's a lot of answers between using assessments to figure out people.
To reading this really cool book called, Yeah But it has but busters in the back of the book where people actually answer questions and it has lines thanks to my creative wife that said, why are there not lines in there so people can fill it [00:24:00] out? And I've had people fill out the whole book.
I was like, I didn't see that coming. Hang around people that are asking questions that you need to know that there are questions that you do would never ask.
Mike: If you are, same question, but from a little different perspective. You are the CEO of a team and you've got a whole of Yeah Butting. Here's why we can't do it on your team, and I've heard this leader's got a big vision.
an aggressive way of looking at growth and wanting to grow, I think in a positive way, but a whole bunch of people on the team that are naysayers.
Yeah. But our people are overwhelmed and
Marc A Wolfe: done that.
Mike: How, you know, it's one thing to kind of that Yeah But in yourself, which I would imagine that's where you've gotta start. if you gotta look
Marc A Wolfe: a whole bunch of folks on your team that. are holding the team back because of that [00:25:00] mindset, how should a leader think about attacking that problem?
so, you know, I can always use, the reason that most people use is, well, Mike, that depends. Right? Well, let me give you one scenario though. Based on the organization, I'm gonna make certain presumptions. If it's an organization that's told that failure is not an option and you can't fail and we can't spend extra money and we can't test things, then you're never gonna get people to go and try and do things that are unsafe.
So let's presume for this example that we're, this is a new team, right? Same CEO, but we're gonna try something different. 'cause the past culture was, failure is not an option. We can't. Here's what I'd go back to that team and say, I'd say, I hear you saying, yeah, but about that, no, we can't do that. So what is possible with what we have?
What was one thing that we could add to go and be able to get the first step [00:26:00] on addressing this? Because a step in the right direction, even if we don't get all the way, there is still a step toward that and is still part of a plan, and then we can build momentum. We'd be able to do more things. So I'd push it back and go, you're telling me what can't happen?
What can happen? What's your role in making that happen? How can you and somebody else collaborate? If you had my job for a day and I gave you the same team we had, how far could you get? And if you get people that are continuing to be negative, don't want to answer the question, don't want to think of something, then maybe they're not the right people for that team.
If they're toxic, where they try to spread after the meeting, that it's, the boss is crazy. Let's just say the boss isn't right, or the boss says, this is a wild idea. It's never gonna work, and they're spreading negativity. Maybe that person needs to either be educated to learn more about the opportunities that they don't see.
Not [00:27:00] every team member gets to see everything behind the scenes and their limited view can allow them to be like. The reason I don't know this is because you never told me more information about this. If I would've known that, I would've seen we could do that. So there's a lot to this, and that's why we both have jobs, Mike, because it's not just a simple answer and pick up a book and be able to do it.
It's listening to people, it's understanding the situation and the culture, and knowing what can be done with what you have or what needs to change.
Mike: Yeah, and I think your answer was important and in while it sounds, it's certainly not rocket science to. switch the question to. Well, what is possible, you know, that kind of question. The challenge is I think we tend to get emotional and when someone pushes back, we wanna push right back at them and we our and here's why we can. But stepping back and just kind of accepting what they said and say, okay, I understand you believe that's a challenge, but what do you think we can do? What
Marc A Wolfe: I think it's, I think [00:28:00] that's a great way to respond to it. but it a level of emotional discipline to not get pissed off and frustrated, you know, and have that kind of conversation.
Mike: but I love that
Marc A Wolfe: Well, Mike, let me just go a little further on that and say that, you know, when you have a leader and they get emotional because someone pushed back, what's the emotional intelligence of that leader to understand that if you don't get pushback and you, then how are you gonna grow? If you think you can see everything, then why even have a team just run it yourself and make it happen?
So if you're gonna have people that are there. And you know, there's always a follow up. Well, they don't understand the whole situation well, how come that is? How come you're not sharing information enough so they could understand? So when you work with a leader in the team like you do you know that there's a perception from the leaders, a perception from the team?
I like being that bridge too. I like having those conversations. But I like working on the leader first because most of the time. Leaders see [00:29:00] things only from their own view, and we know that their team needs to see things as well. But are they sharing enough? Are they knowing enough? And are the people?
Are you trying to change a culture that's so entrenched? It's scary for them to even do anything different than what they've been doing. So these are still humans we're dealing with until AI takes over the world. And then we're gonna get them to be very emotional too. And they're gonna make you feel empathy.
And you're like, well, my AI cares about me. You're like, no, sorry. That's ai.
Mike: and that's happening as we speak. Scare, scary. how big a part and I guess there's a company view of this, but there's certainly an individual perspective to take on this. how important is. The clear vision in this and from an individual standpoint, how important is it, you know, maybe the version of a clear vision is to have big goals, big exciting goals for yourself as an individual, for a team, having that clear, that big, hairy, audacious goal, 10 or 15 years out. [00:30:00] My sense is. the clearer, more and more exciting and more passionate you are and your team is about the vision of the future, the less Yeah Butting you're going to hear, but is that what do you know, how, and it's, and I guess it's another way of saying if the why is big enough, right is so strong, it makes your why bigger? It takes care of some of this, but what's, your experience there?
Marc A Wolfe: So yes, the leader can be very excited and I am an excited leader that tries to get people on. Here's what I see that works even better than just me being excited, giving people a piece so they can be excited of owning part of where we're going. So it's not just the leader's vision. It becomes where it's brought out and their, the team gets to be owned part of it and then take ownership in it [00:31:00] where their idea, one of the things I've done early with organizations was I said, I will go in and I will talk to team members, right?
Even before I even have a client. I'll just have a conversation with somebody that works at a large company here and they'll tell me a bunch of things they wish they could do. Because remember I told you, the question I always ask is, what do you wish you could do? Right? So when you ask that, people will tell you 'cause you're outside the organization, there's no risk in it.
But I hear really well, so I, if I hear the same thing from multiple people at the same organization, I go and present it back to the leader. I say, Hey, by the way, do you know some of your team actually wants to do this? And they're like, what'd you hear this? I was like, just having coffee with some people that work here.
And they're like. I didn't know that. I was like, okay, well now that you know, do you want to help this come together? When you're an advocate for someone else in an organization, you know how they light up because they sometimes don't have a voice, but they have a great idea, but it's not fully baked. It's an idea in its [00:32:00] infancy stage, but it has so much potential that you as a consultant or as a strategist, you're like.
If somebody doesn't do this, somebody else will. If you don't do it, somebody will. And it's just timing and things. You get people excited by giving them a reason to stay at an organization, to grow at an organization and be like, you helped my idea come to life. And I was like, it's your idea. I was just an advocate for you, but you didn't even have us as a client.
I was like. But when it helps you, it helps our community. It helps other people. I love where I live. I love watching people flourish, and I love watching bosses go, this guy just came in. And so I think that's the way, and I think anybody has that opportunity to find somebody outside their organization or even outside of their circle to be like, you wanna get people excited?
Don't just listen to the siloed voices inside your organization. Sometimes look outside to hear what you're missing.
Mike: You know, I wanted. Go back. I actually want to, I wanna give some very specific coaching to the listener on something you [00:33:00] said that I wanna is, you talked about you sitting down and having a cup of coffee with some members of the team and asking the question know what, you know, what do you wish you can do?
or maybe it's, you know, what do you wish you could do as a team? What do you wish you could do as an individual and. you said that pretty quickly, but I wanna go back how powerful that is because as leaders, most of us don't make the time. For
types of conversations. We are so focused on the day in and day out grind of what we are trying to do. the, you know, holding people accountable and setting goals and all those things are important and dealing with the problem phone call from a client. But sometimes the most important thing you can do is have a conversation with an individual on the team or with the team as whole
and say something like, what do you wish we can do?
what do you wish you, [00:34:00] you can do? And again, it sounds so simple, but for the leader listening to this, have that conversation. someone on your team and have that conversation.
If you're not a leader and you're listening to this. Answer that question for yourself and go talk to whoever you are reporting to about it. You be proactive. But that's such an important thing, is just making time to have those types of discussions.
Marc A Wolfe: These are foundational truths, Mike. That's the thing, is that the reason they're foundational is they're there for a reason, and I know the reasons you gave why people, Marc, you know, they laid off people at our organization, we don't have as much time. I have way more work. Here's the thing about work.
There will always be more work, always right? Even when you get laid off, there's still more work. You're just not there to be part of it, but there always will be more work. Here's the thing we didn't really talk about, and it's a Yeah, but that is big for me is to be like you're listening to people [00:35:00] because they're worth listening to.
And even if they're not telling you something you want to hear and they're pushing back, it still has value because then you can see what that person's perspective is on that. There are times you need people that are gonna push back on whatever you do and you have to defend. That's what people do in front of boardrooms.
They have to defend their ideas. Not everything gets rubber stamped anymore. Now you have zero budgets and when you still make things work, they show how resilient you can be, even with a zero budget.
So you think about things like this and what I want to expand it to is to say, where's your family in all this?
Right? So here's this work, but you have a team that you might have gotten married or you have a significant other, and you have. Where do they fit into all this? Because if you're not happy at home and you're overwhelmed at work, that leads to burnout and it doesn't go well for anybody because if you're unhappy and you're robbing your joy at work and at home, that [00:36:00] leads to something where it's hard to be a leader when things like that aren't aligned.
So how are you balancing what I call in the, the book, not work-life balance? I call it. Life, agility. 'cause you're never gonna get balanced. You have to be agile, just like you do at work in your personal life to understand things that ebb and flow. But I think there's a real awareness that's at work, but not so much outside.
Mike: Yeah. I love that and just the idea, the Yeah But it's as important at home as it is at work. and to your point, one is gonna bleed into the other. So, so it's a focus not on just who you are at work, but it's focus on who you are. So, so I love that.
Te tell me a little bit more about how work with clients.
What types of folks do you work with? Is it individuals, is it teams? and gimme an idea some of the work you do.
Marc A Wolfe: So this is who I am, Mike, right? I'm a guy that likes to ask [00:37:00] questions. I'm professionally curious. I love, I've worked in nine different industries with clients because it's not about industries, because I don't have to be an expert in your industry. I have to be an expert on mindset. I have to hear what I hear from people and what they say, and as a consultant and as a strategist for pretty much more than half my life.
I look and say, what am I hearing? What are they saying? Where are they trying to go? And then repeat them back, repeat it back to them to see how they can go and do something differently. I use the talents from executive coaching to ask great questions to leaders. To teams and to bridge gaps. I use my strategy and advisory work as a way to go and help people make money because it's ultimately about profitability somewhere, right?
We're answering this somewhere to someone, and as an author writing Yeah But, there's a real way to be able to take something that's you can download for on kindle for 10 bucks, and if you go through the book, you could learn things that [00:38:00] apply to you today and you can do something today. So. My job is to have a broader reach and be able to be on podcasts, have conversation with people like you because there's so much work that needs to be done.
There needs to be more practitioners that can listen, help and then produce results. And I love getting up every day being able to do that.
what do you love most? Is it, I imagine, do you do one-on-one coaching work as well as working with teams? Is it more one-on-one, more team teamwork? So.
Mike: is the bigger part of what you the favorite part?
Marc A Wolfe: So I started when I was only a consultant, right? I only wanted to do work because I wanted to 10 x and be like, you pay me this, I'll make you this much money and work with larger organizations. What I recognized was that when you work with organizations and you have consultants in there, and even when they're doing, you know, more work than just producing reports and telling you, good luck.
Let me know how it turns out. That's not what I ever did. I always was hands-on doing things, [00:39:00] but I realized that if you don't listen to the leader and hear how they communicate and how they work and support their team. That part means the consulting never gets really implemented correctly. So that's why I became an executive coach.
So when I started talking to leaders, I was like, leaders are lonely. there's imposter syndrome, there's a, people won't push back. I've had people work with me specifically because they're like, I need to hear the truth. Because people are afraid to tell me the truth. Even if I ask them, see, these are leaders that were open, but they're like, people won't go and push back on me because of my role and because of my experience.
Even if I ask them, they just would not do that. So there's somebody open to do it. So working with individuals that are leaders that lead people, right. Directors and above. And then I like working with the team to be able to bridge the gap. But you know, there's more to that. I want to get to the consulting part where we're like, we got the team right.
Here's all the things I heard from you guys over the time we spent together. What are we gonna do about this [00:40:00] part here where the company gets me for free? Because we make so much money changing the way things happen. So I do a diverse role, but it's always about people.
Mike: If someone wants to find out more about you and the work you do, where's where? Is the best place for them to go.
Marc A Wolfe: So I have a website. It's Marc A Wolfe. It's MARCAWOLFE.com. But luckily you can find me by typing in. "Yeah, But" that's, but with one T and Marc Wolfe, if you type in two T's and Marc Wolfe, I'm not gonna guarantee what comes up. Now, I didn't put any of that out there, but "Yeah But" is only one t.
Mike: And definitely as a, as one step I'd say the first step. But if someone wants to contact you about coaching, if that's their first step, that's
But, as one of the steps, Read this book. Read. "Yeah But" Marc, this was great. I always if you want a great company, you need a great [00:41:00] leadership team. Thanks for helping us get there today.
Marc A Wolfe: Mike, this has been a pleasure. Enjoyed every minute of it. Thank you so much.